Should Armed Defenders Help Strangers?
If you carry a concealed firearm for self-defense, the question has no doubt occurred to you: “What would I do if I saw a stranger in distress?”
It’s actually a pretty thorny dilemma for armed defenders, because the fact that they now have access to lethal force absolutely does change the calculus about whether or not to help a stranger who appears to be in mortal danger. Having a firearm on you means that, should you choose to intervene, your involvement in the conflict can get very ugly, very quickly.
Picture this: You witness two men struggling with a lone woman. She’s screaming for help, so you intervene—and you wind up shooting one of the men. But when the police arrive, you learn that both of the men were plainclothes law enforcement officers arresting a female felon. The bad news: You’re now a cop-killer. The good news: The cellmates you meet on your way to Death Row might be impressed.
At the same time, for many if not most of us, the idea of not helping a fellow human being who appears to be struggling for their lives is deeply distasteful—almost inhuman. We can’t tell you what to do should you find yourself in this situation. What we can do is point out some considerations you should work through mentally now, before such a situation unfolds in front of you.
The legal definition of justifiable self-defense changes a bit from state to state, but there are some universal concepts…and those rules do not change when they apply to the defense of others. First, you must hold a reasonable belief that this person’s life is in danger—and by “reasonable,” they mean that most sane people would agree with your assessment. That’s pretty easy, even when you’re making that assessment on someone else’s behalf.
Second, that danger must be present right now, in the moment that you’re thinking of intervening. This is also a pretty easy determination for most reasonable people.
But here’s the toughie: Third, the person you are contemplating assisting must either have not started the conflict, or must have made an attempt to de-escalate. They cannot have been engaging in unlawful activity at the time. And that is an extremely difficult determination to make on a stranger’s behalf.
For example, among the most common types of violence out there is domestic violence. Ask any LEO and they’ll tell you: DV calls are a source of dread. It’s hard to tell who is the primary aggressor, for one. And it’s also quite common for one or both members of the couple to turn their rage on the officers trying to separate the combatants. If trained, experienced law-enforcement officers have a tough time determining fault while not placing themselves in greater danger, how do you fancy your chances?
The best, the safest advice we can give is to call 911, and to be a good witness. Doing so will keep you out of legal danger, and may very well be the best thing you can do for the victim.
All that said, as people with a moral compass, there are some things that we simply cannot abide in our sight. Sometimes the choice to intervene isn’t really a choice at all—not if you have a conscience. Just know that if you do so, you should do it under the same circumstances you would if you were defending your own life. Further, know that if the life you’re defending isn’t yours, you’ll face an increased level of scrutiny both from law enforcement…and from the general public, should the story make the news (and it very well may).
Have you ever intervened to defend a stranger with lethal force, even if all you had to do was display your gun? Tell us about it in the comments!
Yes. I saw a man grab a woman by the neck and force her down in the front seat of a truck. I was certain he was trying to strangle and/or rape her. Since I could not see what other weapons he might have I called 911 and stayed at a safe distance until they got there. What was really happening? She had put a knife to her own throat and threatened to kill herself in his truck. He stopped her by protecting her throat and grabbing the knife.
I dont have experience with firearms or needing them. But when it comes to combat … i love the Kung fu philosophy. kill rather than be killed, but maim rather than kill, but subdue rather than maim but avoid conflict rather than argue. But when trained – this idea that a gun can only be lethal force…has me wondering. Showing someone who doesn’t have a gun that i have a gun – might end the conflict. Shooting someone in the knee is probably going to take the fight right out of him, … i get that the occasional criminal is high on meth and can cross the distance and kill you. But what seems bizarre to me is that i cant use the gun in any defensive way except lethal. Is it really true that i could be in more trouble by intentionally wounding someone rather than killing them?
If you are using a weapon of lethality, you are using lethal force. (Lethal weapons Include guns, knives, rocks or a baseball bat.)
The intent to wound could still lead to death if you hit a major artery or the bullet glances into a major organ or spine. The bullet you fire may miss your intended target and hit an innocent bystander.
The intent is never to kill but to stop the threat. You may not be able to stop the threat by trying to wound them. And because of the adrenaline issue, you may not be able to hit a smaller target. Adrenaline may cause tunnel vision and loss of dexterity in your small muscles so hitting a larger target may become as difficult as hitting a small target. Therefore, you need to shoot at the largest part of the overall target and that is center mass.
The intent, again, is to stop the attacker.
He may die but as long as you did it correctly, the law “hopefully should” find his death to be an acceptable outcome.
Chances are he will survive. Statistics show, due to medical technology today, that gunshot mortality, on the average, does not hit 50% until a person is hit three times.
Excellent on-point education for Gary (“don’t have experience”), Curt!
A long time ago we came upon a car where a female tried to get out and was pulled in by her hair. The man then started beating her. We called the police as per request followed the car as the assault continued. The car stopped at and apartment and the operator asked us for the address and to remain. When the police got there they interviewed the couple and then spoke to us. The couple said nothing had occurred and while there were signs of abuse they could not make an arrest, as I say it was a long time ago.
I would have to ask them if they were liberal first…
No way I would risk my life to save a liberal.
I once saw a fellow beating a woman outside of a bar. I ran up and knocked the guy down, when, to my amazement, I felt/saw a bright light. Shaking my head to loose the cobwebs, I staggered up to see the woman I was “helping” throw down a beer mug she had just clocked me with. It seems she wanted her boyfriend to beat the shit out of her ( or so I thought) and didn’t need my help. So from then on, I just watch.
In 1980–long before my CCW and cell phones–I came upon a man beating up a woman behind a car parked curbside. I was driving toward them. Not knowing the circumstances–including if the assailant was armed–I slowed, turned on my high beams and laid on my car horn. The assault stopped. A “conversation” continued as I drove by slowly on my way home. It was around 2am. Not a quarter mile away was a donut shop. As I expected, two LAPD patrol units were parked there w. four officers. One happened to be a friend. I told him what had just happened. Both cars rolled and I followed, in case my witness was needed. When the officers arrived at the apartment building, a citizen ran up to them, frantically gesturing toward the inside, where the assault had resumed. The officers went in and returned shortly w. the assailant in cuffs and the victim, who received medical attention. Mission accomplished. No gun drawn or shown by me.
My wife and I agree, I/We will not rescue anyone. It could be the people involved know each other and could be LWWLs (LeftWingWackoLiberals) and one may testify AGAINST you! What we will do and something we practice/discuss often, is when we get to our destination (ie mall, store whatever) we first look for exits and places to hide or take cover, then if someone gets “Stupid”, starts violence/shooting, she is to grab me by the belt from behind and pull me towards exit/cover, while I keep eyes (and gun if it is out, I will at least have my hand on the gun) on the “stupid one”. Should he/she turn their attention towards us then I will able to engage them if necessary.
Driving down a city street with my buddy, both armed, we roll up on a young man 20-30 , beating an older woman badly, kicking and punching her. My partner want’s to throw this kid a beating, I said , leave it alone it’s a family dispute, he gets out and pulls the guy off her, she starts screaming at my friend, as does the male, i am know laughing so hard I had to get back in the car. They said this is a family matter and that’s my son, it’s none of your business. So we left with me holding my ribs and him cursing me out. I just knew from experience that they knew each other from the screaming, I never let him live it down.
After 33 years LE experience (State & Federal) I have learned at least one thing. Not everything is at appears to be ! Do not act in haste, you will not have the luxury of a “do over”. Take the time to access the situation. Call 911 and as others have mentioned your phone has a camera…,…..,use it if possible. Once you decide to intervene you become part of the situation for better or worse!!
I like the watch and call 911! If they come after you then shoot them, if they don’t maybe it’s an anti gunner and you just saved yourself from getting shit on for helping!!! And if it’s Shannon Watts, certain politicians, or Bloomberg take video heh-heh
If it was Shannon Watts, Bloomberg or certain politicians…I might join in with the assault.
Some may think you can tell the difference between plain clothes police making an arrest or two thugs attacking a woman or someone. In most cases it would be obvious enough to know but even plain clothes police officers of a city and plain clothes deputy sheriffs of the county have exchanged gunfire with both thinking the other is the bad guy. Happened in Fort Lauderdale in the 80’s. No one was hurt thank God. Police should ID themselves or shout out they are police. IMO the first thing to do is call the police and after that it’s your call because every situation is different.
CALL 911 BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING! Then it is a judgement factor. You do not want to have your firearm out when police arrive, as they will focus on you right away.
Given the legal quagmire our society has become, unless I knew the person being assaulted, I would not intervene unless I had seen the incident develop and start. I would call 911, challenge ALL of them to cease and desist, roll video from my phone to be a good witness and see what happens.
As a retired LE officer who worked both uniform and UC duties, I always continually identified myself verbally If I was not wearing identifiers, i.e., “Police, Stop Resisting.” This was to deter others from interfering and the subject under arrest to think before continuing. I never had an issue with anyone injecting themselves into an incident and off-duty cops always had my back If in the area.
call 911 maybe they will send a social worker to advise the city council .. and they… as the ultimate authority .. as your police have been defended sounds funny … but could really be so nuf said
It depends on the individual state. In Arizona, a fellow human merits protection on an equal basis
Big difference her is that they would not be beating up on her, plain clothes or not. It is called wisdom and needs to be applied in these situations. It would not take long to assess the situation and know what is going on. I would help in a second after analyzing. Thugs need to be stopped.
Personally, no! Unless it was a young child. Too many times one reads about someone stepping in to aid a woman being beating by a boyfriend, only to have said woman turn on them. Now I know in the above senerio the “two men”, were undercover officers and I’m sure this could very well happen today.
My own feelings are that all most adults in this country have the right to exercise their 2nd amendment rights, unless they’re felons, if they chose not to obtain a permit and handgun to protect themselves, then that’s on them.
That was two of the questions by a guy in the class I took for my CCDW. What to do if you encounter…. Sometimes it might be best to call 911 and try to be a good witness. If not after calling 911, take pictures with your cell phone if possible, order them to stop. Have you hand on your weapon, so you’re ready. If one is a LEO they will identify themself, They may break it up and run off, one may stay to make a police report. And should one try to attack you, be ready to defend yourself. But you are for sure jumping in the shark tank, if you didn’t see thing start.